MECCG

Annotation 25: A company is considered to be at the site given by its site card at all times except from the moment their new site card is revealed during their movement/hazard phase until their old site card is discarded during the same movement/hazard phase. During this period a company is considered to be en route between sites and not at any site.
Removing the site of origin and resetting to hand size are simultaneous actions, and they are the last actions in any movement/hazard phase. This means a moving company is not at a site until the site phase.

Annotation 25a: A company’s movement/hazard phase is concluded when a moving company removes its site of origin and both players agree to reconcile (discard down to/draw up to) their hand sizes. No resources (and obviously no hazards) can be played, and no resource effects can be activated, until the site phase or until both players have drawn cards for the movement of a following company.

Annatar escribió: ↑01 Nov 2022 00:49 Lo siento, pero no es tan simple como parece. No se está teniendo en cuenta lo siguiente:

Annotation 25: A company is considered to be at the site given by its site card at all times except from the moment their new site card is revealed during their movement/hazard phase until their old site card is discarded during the same movement/hazard phase. During this period a company is considered to be en route between sites and not at any site.
Removing the site of origin and resetting to hand size are simultaneous actions, and they are the last actions in any movement/hazard phase. This means a moving company is not at a site until the site phase.

Annotation 25a: A company’s movement/hazard phase is concluded when a moving company removes its site of origin and both players agree to reconcile (discard down to/draw up to) their hand sizes. No resources (and obviously no hazards) can be played, and no resource effects can be activated, until the site phase or until both players have drawn cards for the movement of a following company.

Quitar el lugar de origen y resetear la mano son los pasos 5 y 6, y son los últimos de esta fase. Por lo tanto, los eventos que tienen lugar "al final de" siguen sucediendo durante el paso 3 y no pueden suceder después (el paso 4 solo debe considerarse si la compañía regresa a su lugar de origen). Por este motivo un oponente podría cancelar un Puente (Con muchas Penas Sufrirás) si el límite de adversidades aún lo permite.

CDavis7M escribió: ↑15 Nov 2022 08:17 El punto principal a reconocer es que Bridge establece específicamente que es "playable at the end of the movement/hazard phase." La anotación 25a especifica cuándo es "el final" de la fase de movement/hazard: el final (conclusión) es cuando la compañía que mueve retira su sitio de origen y restablece el tamaño de su mano. Es cierto que esta es la "last action", como has señalado. Sin embargo, el puente ya aborda esta cuestión y es una excepción. Hay muchas interacciones de reglas que funcionan de esta misma manera. Después de que la eliminación del sitio se resuelve, y el restablecimiento de las manos se resuelve, entonces Bridge se resuelve: el jugador juega una nueva carta de sitio y una nueva fase de movement/hazard comienza.

Annotation 25a: A company’s movement/hazard phase is concluded when a moving company removes its site of origin and both players agree to reconcile (discard down to/draw up to) their hand sizes. No resources (and obviously no hazards) can be played, and no resource effects can be activated, until the site phase or until both players have drawn cards for the movement of a following company.

• 1) [...]

• 2) [...]

• 3) [...] Una vez ambos jugadores anuncian que no realizarán más acciones, el jugador que está en su turno anuncia la puesta en juego de Puente. El jugador de las adversidades puede responder si el límite de las adversidades aún lo permite.

CRF, Turn Sequence Rulings, Movement, Hazard Phase, Playing Hazards: If you say you are done playing hazards and your opponent plays a resource before the movement/hazard phase ends, you may then resume playing hazards, assuming you have not yet reached the hazard limit.

• 4) Eliminar el lugar de origen (Anotación 25/25a)

• 5) Reestablecer la mano (Anotación 25/25a)

• >>> Si Puente se resolvió con éxito, su jugador pone una nueva carta de lugar en juego y se inicia una nueva fase de movimiento adversidades comenzando de nuevo por el paso 1).

CRF, Lure of Nature: The corruption checks caused by Lure of Nature happen at the end of the afflicted character’s movement/hazard phase. Of course, the character’s player can play resources to modify the corruption checks. The hazard player is allowed to play hazards in response, if the hazard player has enough hazard limit remaining. Hazards so played must directly affect the corruption checks caused by Lure of Nature. The hazard player can play no other hazards, no creature, no new corruption cards, etc.

CoE Issued Rules Clarification 24:
Beginning/End of Phase & Turn
[Acronyms:

• ABP: Actions that may be taken at (or are triggered by) the beginning of a given phase or turn only.

• AEP: Actions that may be taken at (or are triggered by) the end of a given phase or turn only.]

Beginning of a phase/Turn
This period begins at the start of a phase/turn and ends when all players announce that they will not declare any ABP starting a chain of effects and when all triggered ABP are resolved.
The only actions that may be declared in response to ABP are other ABP and actions that target a dice-rolling action and actions that target declared events.
Triggered ABP are declared before ABP that may be taken by players.

End of a phase/Turn
This period begins when all players announce that they will not declare any actions other than AEP starting a chain of effects and when all declared actions other than AEP are resolved.
This period ends when all players announce that they will not declare any actions and when all declared actions are resolved.
The only actions that may be declared in response to AEP are other AEP and actions that target a dice-rolling action and actions that target declared events.
Triggered AEP are declared before AEP that may be taken by players.

Annatar escribió: ↑17 Nov 2022 10:00
Esto que comentas parece bastante contradictorio. En primer lugar, la Anotación 25a expresa:
. . .
"... they are the last actions..." en la Anotación 25 es literal: las últimas acciones ("último" implica que después no puede suceder nada más). Si después de eso se anunciasen nuevas acciones, entonces eliminar el lugar/reestablecer la mano no serían las últimas acciones. Por este motivo veo complicado que se pueda resolver Puente después de los pasos 5-6.

Yes, exactly. There is a contradiction and "Bridge" directly contradicts the rules. And in these situations, where the rule has a limitation and a card addresses that limitation, then the card effect takes precedence. For instance, there is a rule from "White Hand" expansion: ""You may not start or bring into play any character with a mind greater than 5." But "Thrall of the Voice" specifically addresses this limitation and lets you play a 6 mind character. There is also a rule "Annotation 21: A successful strike against a character is synonymous with that character being wounded" but this does not apply to "Thief" -- "Thief" specifically addresses the rule: the character is NOT wounded. 

Annatar escribió: ↑17 Nov 2022 10:00 Existe un ejemplo similar con Atracción de la Naturaleza:

CRF, Lure of Nature: The corruption checks caused by Lure of Nature happen at the end of the afflicted character’s movement/hazard phase. Of course, the character’s player can play resources to modify the corruption checks. The hazard player is allowed to play hazards in response, if the hazard player has enough hazard limit remaining. Hazards so played must directly affect the corruption checks caused by Lure of Nature. The hazard player can play no other hazards, no creature, no new corruption cards, etc.

Los chequeos de corrupción como resultado de Atracción de la Naturaleza tendrían por lo tanto lugar en el paso 3 (después de que ambos jugadores hayan anunciado que no realizarán más acciones), antes de resetear/reestablecer la mano.

There is actually a long history about "Lure of Nature" and I could probably write a whole page about it but to keep it short, please notice that immediately before the quote you gave on "Atracción de la Naturaleza", the errata to "Atracción de la Naturaleza": "Card Erratum: [Replace "at the end of each movement/hazard phase" with "after all other hazards have been played."" This errata was made because at the "end" there is no more site of origin and all of the region cards have been returned to the location deck. Meaning, the company no longer has a "site path." Lure of Nature (METW and MELE) says "at the end of his movement/hazard phase for each Wilderness in his company's site path." The effect of Lure of Nature needs a site path to work, so it cannot happen at the "end", it must happen before the "region cards" and "site of origin" are removed.

"Lure of Nature" is not an example upon which to form an understanding of the "ends of the phases." In fact, there was an ICE netrep discussion about the "Lure of Nature" errata. And I think there is more discussion on this in the one of the "Players Guide" books. Like I said, I could write a page on it. As a preview: the "limited edition" text of Lure of Nature is different, and actually very scary if the player has multiple movement hazards, they might have 8 corruption checks, or more!

Definition of "End": a final part of something, especially a period of time, an activity, or a story.  Step 3 out of 6 steps of a phase if not the "end" of the phase. To go back to the original question: Can "Many Sorrows Befall" be used to cancel "Bridge"? Well, the answer is that "Many Sorrows" can only be played during a period of the game in which "Bridge" is not playable (bridge is only playable at "the end of the phase") and "Bridge" can only be played during a period of the game in which "Many Sorrows" is not playable. Just my understanding. I was confused about Lure of Nature before I looked into it.